What did Stephen Sondheim really think of “rent”?

Stephen Sondheim appears as a sort of oracle in the film adaptation of Jonathan Larson’s rock monologue “Tick, Tick … Boom!” The film, directed by Lin-Manuel Miranda, doubles as an artistic tribute to Larson, better known as the creator of “Rent”. On screen, lower minds are eager to reject the self-proclaimed “future of American musicals,” but Sondheim hails the young man’s talent and potential. The performance is based on the facts: The master craftsman of American theater, who died last month at the age of 91, has supported Larson’s work, financially and creatively.

But when I interviewed Sondheim in 1996, a few months after Larson’s sudden death, his perspective was complicated.

“I think it’s a work in progress,” he said of “Rent,” the Broadway sensation that won Larson a Pulitzer and a Tony. “He wanted to set everything up and the kitchen sink, and he did. I think he suffers from it. “

In “Tick, Tick … Boom !,” Miranda pays homage to the two theater greats who inspired her to make “In the Heights” and “Hamilton”. As the first writer to peruse Larson’s papers after his death, as part of my research for the book “Rent” that I wrote with Katherine Silberger, I was moved to tears at its complexity and compassion. so creatively honored.

It inspired me to revisit my interview with Sondheim. I had spoken with Sondheim on the phone. He generously wanted to honor his former protégé for the book that would tell Larson’s story, but he wasn’t too sentimental. He had been disappointed with the stage version of “Tick, Tick … Boom!” Which at one point was known as “Boho Days” and which recounted Larson’s efforts to write a show called “Superbia”, originally based on “1984 “by George Orwell.

With “Rent,” Larson was getting back on track, Sondheim said. “He was coming back to himself. Some songs had a confidence and a center for them.

Larson had his own complicated relationship with his mentor. One of his goals was to lead the charge of a new generation of playwrights who would offer an alternative to the Sondheim’s of the world. “It’s the 90s, it’s time for that to change,” he told a friend.

Here is the entire interview with Sondheim, parts of which appeared in the book “Rent”:

STEPHEN SONDHEIM I met him on a show called “Superbia”. I don’t remember what brought us together. I guess he wrote me a letter and asked to meet. I meet a lot of young composers: if they write a letter and the work interests me, I will always meet them. He worked on “Superbia” for a long time while I knew him, which I think was right after the first draft. I thought the show was interesting and what he was trying to do was interesting. What was wrong with it had to do with the story and the way the story was told. Some songs accomplished things the story wasn’t. It got less interesting as there was because there wasn’t enough tension and focus in the way the story was told.

What did you think of the composition work?

I thought some songs were good and some were not. The opening number had a certain originality, while the others did not. He was always looking for a voice and I think he still is. But he had a voice and that was the important thing.

There is a story about him wanting to be an actor.

Oh, it was constant with him. Every time he got discouraged with his writing, it was his riff. I don’t think there was ever the slightest doubt in his mind that he wanted to write primarily. Shakespeare started out as an actor.

What kind of role did you play in getting him that first grant for “Superbia”?

Well, I’m the chair of the grant committee. I didn’t know him well enough to recuse myself. My relationship with Jonathan was all about his job. We had a few personal discussions, but I wasn’t defending a friend, I was defending a person whose job I liked. Everyone on the committee liked it too.

Have you seen “Boho Days” or “Tick, Tick… ​​Boom”?

I saw a tape of “Tick, Tick … Boom” and I heard a tape of “Boho Days”.

Did you feel the work [on “Tick” or “Boho”] was progressing and did you identify with the material?

Oddly enough, I didn’t feel like it was progressing and we talked about it. I felt there was more originality in “Superbia”. I was worried that he would despair of being accepted and it was starting to show in the work.

How?

He was becoming more and more like everyone else who was afraid of being original.

What do you think about the content of the play in terms of the frustration of composing and not being produced?

Well, everyone does that. Standard operating procedure. Everyone works for years without being heard, unless they are very lucky. One thing I would say is that he stuck on “Superbia” for too long. I was happy when he started working on the other stuff. I think her approach to the play made her insoluble. It got a little better each time, but it didn’t solve the basic problem of the story.

I heard you told him the same thing about “Rent” as well.

I think it’s a work in progress. The emphasis is on history. He wanted to set everything up and the kitchen sink, and he did. I think he suffers from it.

And you told him he should move on, he’s been working on it for too long.

Absoutely. Once a part has reached a certain stage of development, if you fail to do so, you need to move on and that part can be picked up later. You have to wait until you have an interested director or producer.

However, you gave him a second scholarship?

Yes. Maybe it is, my memory is cloudy, maybe I was warning him not to fall into the same rut. I was worried about it.

His collaborators were keen to focus the story on “Rent”. Do you think it has improved?

Somewhat.

Do you think it was harder for him?

No. I know people who have had more trouble than him. At one point I sent three songs from “Rent” to David Geffen, at Jonathan’s request I think, and it was turned down within a week. He said he fell between two stools. Partly showbiz and part pop.

Is this period more difficult to produce than at the beginning?

No, it’s easier. Provided you don’t want to do it on Broadway, it’s easier with Off Broadway. There was no Off Broadway when I was growing up. No producer will take a chance on a stranger unless he has been pretested on Off Broadway or in a regional theater. It is therefore much easier with the proliferation of regional and Off Broadway.

Do you remember a conversation you had about Jonathan being asked to do another rewrite?

I said you have to learn to collaborate. He has learned. He called me back a few days later and said: You were right. I am ready to collaborate.

Have you seen the workshop production?

Yes.

Did you have any idea it would be such a hit?

No. I didn’t know Jonathan was going to die, that made it into a myth.

The last time I spoke to him was in December. He felt happy with the way he was growing up. He felt the same as any writer in the middle of a rehearsal. It’s terrible, it’s wonderful. I’m ashamed of it, isn’t it great?

Did you think “Rent” was a progression from “Boho Days”? Did you feel like he was getting back on track?

Yes. He was coming back to himself. Some songs had a confidence and a center for them. The song with the two lovers was a piece of the composition swell. I really liked “Santa Fe”. Throughout the score, someone answered a story, obviously it was a story he cared about.