Here is a slightly edited transcript of the interview.
Will Englund: This country is going to have more electric cars and trucks, and by 2035 it will not be universal, but it is happening quickly. What will America’s oil industry look like when this happens?
Jennifer Granholm: Well I would say it will be up to them. Many of them understand this. They are now diversifying into energy companies rather than oil and gas companies. I think Chevron just announced… that it was going to invest $ 300 million in a fund to advance low-carbon technologies. So this is a very important opportunity for them. But clearly, it will be up to them to be more responsive. They could invest in battery technology. They could invest, of course, in biofuels, which is different.
They can see where it’s going. They can see that the world is going to demand clean energy solutions and zero carbon solutions by 2050.
What are the means of diversifying their energy portfolios that will allow them to always be profitable? I think there are a lot of opportunities if they’re willing to go.
WE: Does the energy department have a role to play in guiding or leading or, you know, pushing businesses and the industry as a whole?
JG: From a technological point of view, we are eager to deploy much of the research that has taken place in the laboratories. So, for example, carbon capture and sequestration technologies, in particular, are emerging from the [National Energy Technology Laboratory] in West Virginia.
They are working on all of this. Not only reduce carbon emissions from coal, which they do, but also from natural gas. The ability to produce natural gas in a way that is even carbon negative is a huge opportunity for these companies. We want to partner with anyone who wants to be able to deploy these technologies. We would just like to see more.
There is an analogy here from my own experience in Michigan. We built a vehicle, a product that relied on gasoline. And we still do. And the question is, you know, as GM announces an all-electric fleet, they saw where it was heading and they decided to branch out in the same way.
WE: If we go for clean energy, what will the grid look like? Will we always have a grid as we know it?
JG: It is clear that the network, its reliability and its capacity are at the center of the concerns. I think you will see in the next package that [the White House] present in Congress – right now, obviously, they’re focusing on the covid bailout package – but there will be a job package next. And I fully expect that there will be a significant commitment to invest in the national grid, both by expanding transmission lines and by investing in network resilience. These two things have to happen if we are to add all of these electric vehicles and clean energy demand to our national grid.
WE: You tweeted the other day that what happened in Texas, and what happened in California during the summer heat there, just shows that we need to upgrade the grid. But was there anything new for you in Texas that made you think again about the kinds of changes needed?
JG: A hand of friendship extended to Texas – to consider improving their connectivity to the national grid so that their neighbors can help them in times of crisis. [The grid in Texas has only minor links to the rest of the country, which some believe contributed to the problems there. It keeps the state free of federal electricity regulation.] Obviously, they have to winterize their energy system. I understand the desire to be independent. I understand that is the philosophy of Texas. But in an emergency, it would be good to know that there is a backup.
WE: You mentioned modernizing transmission lines. There are people who believe the answer is to have more locally produced electricity across the country to try and break this type of rectangular grid that we have, as they say. What do you think of that? And there is new interest in mini nuclear power plants.
JG: This is all awesome. I’m very much in favor of microgrids, these small modular nuclear reactors, the ability to have distributed energy resources, community solar attached to a microgrid. These solutions are very interesting and could and certainly should be part of the national system. We should get communities to think about that so they’re not so dependent, you know, on poles with wires at the top that were built 70 years ago.
So, yes, that is certainly also part of the technologies that are being researched in the laboratories of the Department of Energy.
WE: Your predecessor [during the Obama administration], Ernest Moniz, was instrumental in securing the Iran nuclear deal. There is a lot of interest in trying to revive this deal. Would you play a role in that?
JG: The Department of Energy would certainly play a role in that regard. And the experts who are nuclear scientists and physicists would. I would obviously rely on the expertise of those who have this experience.
WE: What will happen to the coal miners in this country?
JG: Yeah, that’s such an important question. In fact, we have a meeting today, the first meeting of the task force that Joe Biden created to address communities that have been producers of coal and fossil fuels. We want to make sure that technologies such as carbon capture and sequestration, geothermal energy, hydrogen, are deployed. And these communities are the perfect place to demonstrate how these technologies can be used to meet our goal of net zero carbon emissions by 2050. So we’re excited to truly create jobs in these communities.
You may have seen the Brookings Institution report that said these fossil communities are perhaps among the most ripe for deployment of wind and solar technologies as well. So there is a cargo of clean energy technologies that perhaps match the skills of those who have been in mining, including, by the way, extracting the critical materials needed to build batteries. .
The overall goal of this task force, along with its focus on environmental justice, is to ensure that 40% of the benefits of investing in clean energy go to communities, such as in West Virginia, in other places that have been left behind or have been disproportionately affected by pollution.
WE: And can you persuade these communities to give it a try?
JG: [Senator] Joe manchin [D-W.Va.] is a prime example. As he will say, he does not care about the coal companies. He cares about the coal miners. So what do people need? And if they see that jobs are coming, these clean energy sectors, that they have a future …
It is not regulation that causes coal to decrease in terms of market share. This is the world saying, “We all want to achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2050.” So what are the technologies that will get us there? And the people who represent these states are very optimistic about technological solutions that can be scaled up within their communities. And U.S. too.